TALES FROM THE PEANUT GALLERY 2

PHOTO-3D Digest 3786

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Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:35:13 +0000

From: Ray Hannisian <ray@xxxxxxxx>

To: Photo3D <photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu>

Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel

Mike Hogdgeson writes:

>I would suggest that everybody write this guy a kind note letting him

> know you won't be buying his products either.

I appreciate the support, but please DON'T.

He is now threatening me with legal action for "defamation of character".

(Someone on this list already wrote to him with their reaction to the situation.)

I am not a lawyer.  I feel that if anyone besmirched his reputation, he did it himself.  However, if his poor manners harm his sales,

I don't want to be considered culpable.

This is a discussion list where we all talk about what it is like to do business in the 3D marketplace.  I simply reported what happened to me after requesting that un-credited, un-linked copyrighted content of mine be removed from another company's site.  (A second request, by the way).

However,  *****DISCLAIMER*****

My comments regarding the business practices of others are intended solely as INFORMATION about the hazards of e-Commerce, are entirely my own opinions, and are not intended to cast aspersions upon anyone else or influence the buying practices of members of this list,

                                                (if you know what I mean).

Sincerely,

Ray Hannisian

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Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 10:07:54 -0800 (PST)

From: George Themelis <gthemelis@xxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel

> He is now threatening me with legal action for "defamation of

> character".

How about this for response to his threats:  "F--- OFF AND DON'T BOTHER ME AGAIN - J---"? :-)

=====

George Themelis

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Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 13:32:26 -0500

From: Gabriel Jacob <jacob@xxxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel

> He is now threatening me with legal action for "defamation of

> character".

LOL, George gave a good response, but I think the guy should sue himself first. He defamed his OWN character! Actually, on second thought, maybe he never had any character to begin with!

Dr.T, maybe you should give him one of your nasty injections of whatever your carrying there in your syringe! Yikes!!! ;-)

Have a nice day! :-) :-) :-)

Gabriel

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Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 12:46:49 -0800 (PST)

From: L <jet_lk@xxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: tetratel is not good for 3-D

I think that tetratel did finally remove Ray's images, since I didn't see them (maybe I didn't look hard enough).  But, I think any person, let alone an actual company that would take other people's images without permission should be repromanded.  I also took a look at what they describe they are all about, and it is the typical BS where they talk about how bad the "1950's FAD of 3-D, with the red/blue glasses" was, and how great there brand new high tech (which has

been around for over a decade in acuallity) glasses are great.  I am really sick of people that think 3-D is a great way to scam people out of money, but they don't even do there one stereo stuff, and obviously don't care about those of us that do.

I have not updated my own web site in a year because of people stealing the images.  I also wish I didn't have to disturb the images with my copywrite info, but it does discourage some of the people from taking them.

I think people like Ray Hannison, Dan, and my self should be applauded for putting up lots of images/info without charging for it, not ripped off.

Whew!  I am glad I got that out!

Lincoln

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Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 14:53:00 PST

From: "Xal razutis" <razutis@xxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel/Boomin3d/Hodsdon

Since when do personal disagreements and quoting personal e-mail become issues for subscriber's to this list?

The information that Tetratel published  Ray's images, or that boomin3d.com has a (unauthorized?) link to Shelly's site could not be verified by going to those sites since in the first case I could not find the images and in the second case I saw a clear reference to 'Dan' and presumably this was a service to all the link-droppers world wide.

So Hodsdon suggests that 'everybody write this guy' (Ken at Tetratel) and join in the private disagreement between Ken and Ray.  Soap box stuff, not really worthy of this list.

Al Razutis

Mike Hodsdon wrote:

>I would suggest that everybody write this guy a kind note

>letting him

>know you won't be buying his products either. I love how he

>takes your

>content then calls YOU a jerk! Amazing!

>  I also ran into a site called boomin3d.com that had Dan

>Shelly's entire

>links section copied wallpaper and all. The only changes

>they made were

>to remove any references to Dan! Aren't people swell?

>Sorry for the rant! Have a good weekend everyone! Mike

>Hodsdon

______________________________________________________

Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:42:22 -0700

From: "Dan Shelley" <dshelley@xxxxxxxx>

To: <photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu>

Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel/Boomin3d/Hodsdon

Message-ID: <000801bf8c7c$9f745d60$8642ac98@0r678>

>Shelly's

It's SHELLEY thank you.

>the second case I saw a clear reference to 'Dan' and presumably this was a

>service to all the link-droppers world wide.

It's an appeasement to me to make up for stealing hundreds of my links (and time and effort) and claiming it as their own. They added that after removing the other pages that they were called on.

As to whether these messages should or should not be here on this e-mail list...? I say they should as many of us might be in a position to buy products from one or more of these companies. If they are willing to steal content to display as their own at the "public face" level of their business, I sure appreciate knowing about it because it is most likely only

the tip of the iceberg of potential problems with that business.

Dan

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PHOTO-3D Digest 3787

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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:22:57 -0500 (EST)

From: "C. Pflanze" <troggy@xxxxxxxx>

To: PHOTO-3D <photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu>

Subject: P3D Tetratel commotion and other comments . . .

>From: Ray Hannisian <ray@xxxxxxx>

>Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel

>He is now threatening me with legal action for "defamation of character".

Obviously, the guy is an amateur in the business world.  Violating copywright laws when $$$ are at stake is serious.  The church of Scientology sends federal marshalls out and initiates multi-million dollar lawsuits whenever anyone posts any of their copywrited materials on the net, and they're supposedly a religion, not a even a business.

Yes, sometimes they succeed and drive critics into bankruptcy.

>(Someone on this list already wrote to him with their reaction to

>the situation.)

>I am not a lawyer.

If it were me, and I had the time and $$, I'd be PO'd enough to counterthreat legal action for copywright infringement.

>I feel that if anyone besmirched his reputation,

>he did it himself.  However, if his poor manners harm his sales, I

>don't want to be considered culpable.

The guy is just bluffing, and he's not just threatening you, he's threatening our mailing list.  We've the right to  communicate with each other about various vendors.

>This is a discussion list where we all talk about what it is like to

>do business in the 3D marketplace.

Precisely!

Changing subject, someone commented about dirt and dust eventually winding up on slides.  How effective is the anti-Newton glass? I've got a good number of slides taken 30 years ago that I mounted in glass.  Many of them are damaged by rainbow colored rings. Because of that experience, I'm a bit hestitant to use glass mounts for my stereos.

Charles

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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:03:00 -0800

From: Michael Hodsdon <mike3d@xxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Tetratel

Al Razutis wrote:

>So Hodsdon suggests that 'everybody write this guy' (Ken at Tetratel) and join in the private disagreement between Ken and Ray.  Soap box stuff, not really worthy of this list.

Hi,

 I was just surprised to see a "ceo" sound like some chatroom teenager that's all. I don't know about any private disagreement. All I saw was a two line response to a generic request to remove some images. As far as 'not being worthy of this list', I like to hear of people's experiences with a 3-D company good OR bad. Perhaps Al would've been happier if I'd have worded it, "IMO The only recourse with corporations is to let them know you won't be buying their product." Sorry I'm not a writer but that's basically what I meant.

With Boomin3d.com I knew Dan Shelley's pages were already removed. I just thought I'd relay what I saw and thought you might get a laugh out of their claims. (sorry for the misspelling btw Dan) I've seen content from list members' sites used w/out permission three times in the last two weeks. That was why I posted.

Next time I'll go over my spontaneous rant with a fine tooth comb and a thesaurus so as not to offend you Al.

 Mike

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:40:53 EST

From: JNorman805@xxxxxxxxx

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: tetratel

Hello, all:

    I have received what I would describe as a temperate, civil, even handed response from Ken Tetrington to my admittedly accusatory inquiry, which was prompted by Ray's account of his experience.  I have asked Ken for his

permission to post his response to this group as a whole, and if he grants permission, I will do so.

    In the meantime, on the theory that every story has (at least) two sides, may I suggest that we all suspend our recriminatory rhetoric, and take a deep breath?

    Peace,

    Jim  Norman

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 10:20:06 PST

From: "Xal razutis" <razutis@xxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Tetratel/3D Gamers/this list

Lots of opinions offered on who did who wrong. Plenty of soap boxes abound (including such headings as 'Tetratel is not good for 3D'). Since Ken (Tetratel) are not on this list, therefore are not able to respond, the story is incomplete.  I will forward the contents of P3D 3786 to him and the debate can go from there (if he chooses to join the list).

What I know about Tetratel:

1. It is in the business of supplying LCD viewing hardware to Isee3d.com (webcast 3D). These retail for low prices and are high quality/low cost items. This is a welcome relief from high prices in the marketplace (both for computer and video viewing stations).

2. It is in the business of developing content (and drivers) for 3D gamers.

3D games (eg. xgamers.com), as I checked out the wares this past  weekend, are breaking ground again.  'Passive' viewing of interlaced 3D content is now replaced with 'interactive' viewing (you participate) of games in stereoscopic 3D.  A simple toggle on (Control+T) puts you into stereo mode. With standard hardware acceleration (standard stuff for gamers), the 3D effects are impressive. The glasses are fashionable, compact, wireless, flickerless. Sync doubling is used to get away from the bothersome flicker. We examined 'Motocross Madness' and 'Urban Chaos' CDs using the

xgamers.com hardware, and although the 'content' is not something I would rave about, the interactive 3D medium was definitely 'the message', and it was quite impressive for those of us who create 3D modelings, 3D video, or the

extremely cumbersome stereo VRML.

Prices for both games and viewers are dropping.  More enthusiasts are coming on board.

3.  Tetratel also participated in the mastering of John Williamson's CG work and distributes a DVD with (proprietary) MPEG compression.  Although I have not seen this DVD, previous discussions on this list indicated that the results were laudable.

I don't work with or for Tetratel, but applaud attempts to get a variety of stereo 3D delivery systems and products into the marketplace. The future is interactive, multi-platform, and web-cast.

Even Sports Illustrated did 3D a phenomenal service when it published its anaglyph swimsuit issue.  Perhaps some of the opinionated writers (experts) on this list will do the same (publish a international magazine).

So unless I read another side to the story (from the 'accused'), I'll continue to tread carefully amongst the soap boxes and respect creative output rather than opinions based on 'well intentioned' gossip.

Al Razutis

Lincoln wrote (in part):

>I am really sick of people that think 3-D

>is a great way to scam people out of money, but they

>don't even do there one stereo stuff, and obviously

>don't care about those of us that do.

>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:46:47 MST

From: "Dan Shelley" <shelleydan@xxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel/3D Gamers/this list

>So unless I read another side to the story (from the 'accused'),

>I'll continue to tread carefully amongst the soap boxes and

>respect creative output rather than opinions based on 'well

>intentioned' gossip.

Does anyone have a 20' ladder I could borrow to climb up and maybe see what else is on Al's soapbox? ;-)

No, we have not heard from both side of this debate yet. But, the one side we have heard from is a long standing member of the 3D community who has added much content and value over the years.

The facts we have so far are:

1) This other company stole content and presented as their own.

2) When confronted about the violation, they responded in a childish and inappropritae menner.

Al, you go on respecting whatever you want. This isn't about what great things these folks have done in the past, or will continue to do in the future. It's about what they did in this situation. For what it's worth, I hope they do come to the list and explain themselves.

Dan

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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:34:35 -0500 (EST)

From: John W Roberts <roberts@xxxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel/3D Gamers/this list

>Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:49:57 -0700

>From: "Dan Shelley" <shelleydan@xxxxxxxx>

>Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel/3D Gamers/this list

>No, we have not heard from both side of this debate yet. But, the one side

>we have heard from is a long standing member of the 3D community who has

>added much content and value over the years.

>The facts we have so far are:

I expect that it's worthwhile allowing the P3D readers the opportunity to be aware of these issues. On the other hand, Jim Norman has stated that there is additional relevant information, which he is going to try to get permission to post on the list. Until such an attempt has either succeeded or failed, I do not feel it is worth the time of the P3D readership to have to wade through an hour by hour update of "here are our judgments based on the current information" - especially since such judgments may have to be revised soon due to new information.

If there were a strong indication that no further information would be forthcoming, it would be a different situation. But since we may have more information soon, why not wait for it before posting analyses to P3D?

I also wonder whether it might be better to hold the bulk of the discussion on S3D, since it's really a sales issue, rather than a 3D photography and imaging issue.

John R

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PHOTO-3D Digest 3788

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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:45:09 PST

From: "Xal razutis" <razutis@xxxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Shelley's ad hominems

Deflecting the argument from the issues and making personal stabs is a sign of adolescent narcissism. I suggest that entries such as Dan's (below) be reviewed (elsewhere) by his own peers and that he provide his own ladder.

Al Razutis

Dan Shelley wrote in part:

>Does anyone have a 20' ladder I could borrow to climb up and maybe see what

>else is on Al's soapbox? ;-)

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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:41 -0800 (PST)

From: L <jet_lk@xxxxxxxxx>

To: razutis@hotmail.com

Cc: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D your comments about my comments

When I wrote:

>I am really sick of people that think 3-D

>is a great way to scam people out of money, but they

>don't even do there one stereo stuff, and obviously

>don't care about those of us that do.

>

I was refering to the "gallery" that they have on the web.  The STOLE other's images, instead of using there own.  And when I said they are bad for 3-D, It is because they are misinforming the public about other forms of stereo viewing with the intent to "trick" them into using there format.  They claimed that stereo movies were not in full color, and were

anaglyph, which is just not true in the least.  If they do the tiniest bit of actuall research they would have found that not to be true.  IT IS BAD FOR 3-D TO TALK BADLY ABOUT THE PAST OF 3-D"

It is nice that they have someone (you) defending them on this list, but do you have any understanding of those who complained?  Have you ever put your images on the web?  Have they ever been taken without your permission.  There and have been dozens of companies just like the one we have been discussing.  You mentioned, "These retail for low prices and are high quality/low cost items.".  Do you know that for a fact (are you a proud owner of the product), or are you just quoting thier web site.

Do you feel some sort of moral obligation to defend an "on this list, defenseless" company against a few individual artists that have been taken advantage of by companies for years.  And you say that we are on a soap box.

Lincoln

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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:05:28 +0100

From: "Sergio Baldissara" <winter@xxxxxxxxx>

To: <photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu>

Subject: P3D R: tetratel thread

please cut it! THANKS!

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:45:20 EST

From: CanterMike@xxxxxxx

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: F***ing Tetratel

In the ongoing discussion of Mr. Ken (fuck off jerk)  Teterington's poor manners and equally poor grasp of the law, the following as appeared a few times now:

<<  This is a discussion list where we all talk about what it is like to do business in the 3D marketplace. >>

Actually, this discussion group is not limited to business: it is for everything related to three dimensional (stereo) photography & imaging. There are separate lists for wheelers & dealers (Sell 3D) and for the people who prefer the math and theory that makes it all work (Tech 3D), and there was at one point (is it still active?) a list for the more esoteric

computer/digital discussions.  Without these separations, this list could rapidly degenerate into an endless string of "For Sale" ads and "WTB"'s. Sometimes topics cross over from one list to another, and many subscribers do complement and/or supplement their 3D interests with commercial ones, but it is generally considered poor manners to promote your business in every posting to this list.

I have a ruler right here and I have been known to slap wrists when every post has a plug for the stuff that you sell.  ;-)

Mike (see? I learned to make emoticons!) Canter

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 21:07:53 EST

From: CanterMike@xxxxxxxxx

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Apology

In light of Jim Norman's missive and John Roberts' exceptionally mature post, I would like to express my sincere regrets at being so hasty in sending my last contribution to this group.  I stand by the major point of the post: that this group is not limited to commercial interests; but I certainly should have used a more moderate subject line and opening sentence.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, even Mr. Ken Teterington.

Mike Canter  :-(

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 20:48:27 -0700

From: "Dan Shelley" <dshelley@xxxxxxxxx>

To: <photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu>

Subject: P3D Re: Apology

I too am sorry for getting sucked in to this discussion. Personal (recent) experience with the main subject cause my reaction, and other personalities added to it. However, that is no excuse. Like Mike, I still hold to some of what I said, but should have communicated my issues to the party involved, not the list.

Dan :-(

>

>In light of Jim Norman's missive and John Roberts' exceptionally mature post,

>I would like to express my sincere regrets at being so hasty in sending my

>last contribution to this group.  I stand by the major point of the post:

>that this group is not limited to commercial interests; but I certainly

>should have used a more moderate subject line and opening sentence.

>

>I'm sorry if I offended anyone, even Mr. Ken Teterington.

>

>Mike Canter  :-(

>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:10:34 -0500

From: Gabriel Jacob <jacob@xxxxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: Tetratel/3D Gamers/this list

Xal Razutis writes:

>I don't work with or for Tetratel, but applaud attempts to get a variety of

>stereo 3D delivery systems and products into the marketplace. The future is

>interactive, multi-platform, and web-cast.

I wonder if this is really an altruistic motive, or rather a courting gesture on your part toward Tetratel? So that maybe they can distribute your wares? Remember your glowing "remarks" with regards to the C3D television broadcasters awhile back, and how you were trying to peddle your stuff to them. Same thing here?

Just the facts, Gabriel

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 23:15:39 -0500

From: Gabriel Jacob <jacob@xxxxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: Shelley's ad hominems

At 01:48 PM 3/13/00 -0700, you wrote:

>Deflecting the argument from the issues and making personal stabs is a sign

>of adolescent narcissism. I suggest that entries such as Dan's (below) be

>reviewed (elsewhere) by his own peers and that he provide his own ladder.

>

>Al Razutis

Sorry Xal, you got it all wrong. Maybe Dan took some personal stabs, but at least he doesn't stab the whole list.

Gabriel

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PHOTO-3D Digest 3789

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:56:40 -0500 (EST)

From: markaren@xxxxxxxxx (Dottle)

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Neighborhood

The web is a self-governed " surf at your own risk" medium. The anonymity and non-accountablity of the web give many people the opportunity to disregard social manners, morality and ethics because they can. This list is different, like neighbors, many of you have met personally, or have been introduced by a 3rd party, have spoken on the phone etc. This list should protect their own!

Here's a neighbor analogy relating to the recent theft thread:

One or two of our " neighbors" sit in their lazy chairs and watch a neighbors house being robbed. The police siren annoys the indifferent neighbors so they go inside their homes. These neighbors are informed about  the robbery and warned by the police, asking for their help. Turns out the robber was the lawn care guy who services the community. The

Indifferent  neighbors tell the police that they are bothered by the siren, it was the home owners fault because he left a window cracked, and that  there lawns are nice and green because of this man's services to their lawns! Besides, they haven't heard the robber's side of the story. The neighbors asked police to release the man stating that their lawns would

suffer if he were found guilty. The robber admitted to the theft.....but the neighbors continually ask that the case be dropped !

Many of our intelligent " neighbors" on this list seem to lack common sense. Facts are facts.

Thanks for the " heads-up"  neighbor regarding shifty business practices that effect our community !! I won't support such a business either.

Mark Dottle

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 06:55:27 PST

From: "Xal razutis" <razutis@xxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D Re: your comments about my comments

Lincoln,

Thanks for your clarifications. I don't agree with anyone stealing from anyone else, and I hope this issue is re-addressed by Tetratel's Ken. That's why I sent him the copies of the digest (to answer).

I am aware of this company for the past couple of years, I have seen/tested their viewing hardware both at C3D and isee3d.com, I have published images/videos/texts for years on the web and I am keenly aware that any images posted on the web can (and do) end up somewhere else.  My videotapes have been pirated, my films have been copied, but I don't spend all my time tracking down perpetrators.  Sometimes I come across interesting images that are un-signed, and if/when I find the authors I try to contact them.

As for 'defending' this company, I am pointing out that their interests are useful to the evolution of 3D. I don't believe everything that Ray writes, and neither do I believe that publishing personal e-mail on a international list is kosher.  When list readers start to propose a boycott of a company (without hearing/reading more than a fragment) then we have mob

rule.  When I get personally attacked for expressing ideas we have more mob rule (like the 'Teri' experience of December and January).

What I value about P3D is the diversity of views, knowlege, experience.

I agree that the past of 3D should not be denigrated, since it is on those shoulders that we have come to the present.  I also believe that 3D is a lot bigger than the individual cliques that reside in P3D and that some individuals have become accustomed to using the list as a personal chat-line (greetings, gripes, sales pitches) which contradicts the international and disparate nature of its subscribers.

On the issue of Tetratel, Isee3D.com, and even Vrex, there is a lot more to Ray's involvement (and disaffection) than a simple 'image' represents. He was listed as a contributor early on, then suddenly (presumably from a disagreement) dropped.  Let's see what additional facts are brought to light. Better in the public light than in the self-censored chat

room.

Al Razutis

------------------------------

>From: L <jet_lk@xxxxxxxxx>

>To: razutis@xxxxxxxx

>CC: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

>Subject: your comments about my comments

>Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:18:41 -0800 (PST)

>

>When I wrote:

>

> >I am really sick of people that think 3-D

> >is a great way to scam people out of money, but they

> >don't even do there one stereo stuff, and obviously

> >don't care about those of us that do.

> >

>

>I was refering to the "gallery" that they have on the

>web.  The STOLE other's images, instead of using there

>own.  And when I said they are bad for 3-D, It is

>because they are misinforming the public about other

>forms of stereo viewing with the intent to "trick"

>them into using there format.  They claimed that

>stereo movies were not in full color, and were

>anaglyph, which is just not true in the least.  If

>they do the tiniest bit of actuall research they would

>have found that not to be true.  IT IS BAD FOR 3-D TO

>TALK BADLY ABOUT THE PAST OF 3-D"

>

>It is nice that they have someone (you) defending them

>on this list, but do you have any understanding of

>those who complained?  Have you ever put your images

>on the web?  Have they ever been taken without your

>permission.  There and have been dozens of companies

>just like the one we have been discussing.  You

>mentioned, "These retail for low prices and are high

>quality/low cost items.".  Do you know that for a fact

>(are you a proud owner of the product), or are you

>just quoting thier web site.

>

>Do you feel some sort of moral obligation to defend an

>"on this list, defenseless" company against a few

>individual artists that have been taken advantage of

>by companies for years.  And you say that we are on a

>soap box.

>

>Lincoln

>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:27:11 -0800 (PST)

From: George Themelis <gthemelis@xxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Subject: P3D My comments on  your comments about my comments

--- Xal razutis <razutis@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I also believe that 3D is a lot bigger than the individual

> cliques that reside in P3D and that some individuals have

> become accustomed to using the list as a personal chat-line

> (greetings, gripes, sales pitches) which contradicts the

> international and disparate nature of its subscribers.

Xal, my friend, relax!

When a new member shows up in this list and says "hi, this is my first message" and no one responds to it, he/she will not feel well about it.  That's why I sometimes greet new members.  Is anything wrong with that?

Sales pitches?  You just pointed to your web site to check your work.  Your web site is connected to sales of your products.  Is that a sales pitch?  I sometimes point people to my ebay auctions because there are things (images) of interest that they might be interested in seeing.  Is that a sales pitch?  So, what if it is?  Relax my friend... no one is going to die.

Gripes?  You are one of the leaders. (I am following the leader)  This quoted part at the top what else is it other than a big

gripe?

Cliques?  These are only in your mind.  So, some people have met  some other personally in the NSA conventions.  Many of us are friends.  You feel you don't belong here?  Try posting more friendly messages and maybe you will have friends here one day. But I know you don't care...

And what's that got to do with the international and disparate nature of the list?  Because the list is interenational all

messages must be dry, academic, with no reference to people and relationships (Terri, where are you???)

Hey, stop by my table in the NSA convention to chat.  I'd like to meet you in person and have a few beers afterwards.  I think you are a nice guy, no matter what everyone else says!

Love ya baby!

George :-)

=====

George Themelis

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:19:07 PST

From: "Xal razutis" <razutis@xxxxxxxxx>

To: photo-3d@calcite.rocky.edu

Cc: jacob@xxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: P3D Re: peddling stuff (Gabriel Jacob)

This issue for me is neither 'altruistic' nor self-serving as Gabriel suggests. If Tetratel or C3D or anyone involved in distributing 3D works is interested I will communicate with them about what I do, and what my intended projects are. I don't require 'permission' from Gabriel or anyone on this list to conduct my affairs. And I think that pointing out a

company's direction (as beneficial to 3D) based on their accomplishments hardly constitutes 'courting'. As for unauthorized use of images (see post to Lincoln), I don't  condone such actions. Period.

With regards C3D, and their aims to broadcast a variety of 3D content, I am naturally interested and think highly of their goals to distribute 3D content. Repeated discussions with various people at C3D (in July/1999, December/1999) on the issue of licensing my works have not resulted in any sales.  This does not mean that I will abandon these and other

efforts.

The facts are that I don't work for or with Tetratel or C3D. And should that ever happen, I'll publish a press release. Ray Hannisian's previous involvement with Tetratel and Isee3D (his content was listed on their respective sites early on) can be best explained by Ray and those company reps.

Get your own facts straight Gabriel.

Al Razutis

>Xal Razutis writes:

> >I don't work with or for Tetratel, but applaud attempts to get a variety of

> >stereo 3D delivery systems and products into the marketplace.

> >The future is interactive, multi-platform, and web-cast.

>

>I wonder if this is really an altruistic motive, or rather a courting gesture

>on your part toward Tetratel? So that maybe they can distribute your wares?

>Remember your glowing "remarks" with regards to the C3D television

>broadcasters awhile back, and how you were trying to peddle your stuff to

>them. Same thing here?

>

>Just the facts, Gabriel

>

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